Understanding the Israel-Gaza Conflict & The Future of the Middle East | John Sheehan | Episode #33

In Episode #33 of The Cameron Brown Show, I sit down with John Sheehan, a senior consulting strategist with extensive experience advising foreign central banks, U.S. allies, government agencies, and American manufacturers on global geopolitical and economic issues.

This episode takes a deep dive into the complexities of the Israel-Gaza conflict and the broader geopolitical landscape of the Middle East. We discuss:

🔹 The historical and political roots of the Israel-Gaza conflict
🔹 The role of global powers like the U.S., China, and Russia in shaping the region
🔹 The future of the Middle East and its impact on global stability
🔹 How economic and military strategies influence ongoing conflicts

John brings a strategic, insider perspective on the challenges and power dynamics shaping the region. Don’t miss this deep dive into one of the most pressing global issues of our time.

📌 Follow along for more in-depth conversations and let me know your thoughts in the comments!

Transcript

John uh really appreciate you hopping on to join me tonight uh for
0:46
this episode of the Cameron Brown Show uh we've been talking about this for a little while now and uh just really
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appreciate you joining me for the show my pleasure uh John and I
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met roughly 5 years ago little over that now um when I moved to Boston after
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graduating from school um got my first job there and uh actually met in Harvard Square um somehow started a conversation
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and it's led to back and forth over the years via email um and plenty of uh really good conversations uh we had a
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conversation recently about basically doing a series uh of shows and of episodes that cover different topics uh
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from location geopolitical locations around the world um different events
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that are going on um different things that are going on internationally that we really think that people need to know
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more about in general and the first of those happens to be the Gaza and Israel situation and the US's involvement um in
1:47
that particular um region and obviously there's plenty more to come after this
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but we're going to start with that topic tonight but just to give a little background on John um and who he is John
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she is a senior Consulting strategist for foreign central banks us allies and partners American Banks us manufacturers

Who is John Sheehan? – Background & Expertise in Geopolitics
2:06
and US government agencies he has worked as a bank regulator and consultant to the US government and to us allies and
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partners he has advised Wall Street firms and us-based manufacturers on how to avoid offshoring to China Vietnam Lae
2:20
and Europe he's a specialist in Asian financial markets Russian studies European politics in the Middle East
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North African regions he's authoring fourth books on radical movements anglo-american Global strategic problems
2:33
and new soft power strategies for the Middle East and he's also working on strategies to rebuild the US defense
2:39
industrial base a proposal for an American Foreign Legion and a new US strategy for Eurasia John looking
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forward to diving into this topic tonight once again we're going to cover the Israel and Gaza situation and
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America's involvement um and I'll kind of let you take it over from here glad to help uh Cameron because I I
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think people are Americans are involved in their own
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issues and sometimes uh well I think too much we get we lose track of how much
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power we have on the course of events in the world and uh um if Americans go
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abroad they won't get over how much people are talking about how our
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policies influence them right and they want one thing above all it's for
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Americans to listen to them and um to
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understand what we do and what we don't do and uh how we need to pay more
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attention to that because uh it blows back on us
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and it matters to what we think of ourselves as a generous
4:00
Global power and it if we understand what we're doing
4:07
and how people are reacting to it it might help us understand why things do happen like 911 and right you know Wars
4:15
and places like Ukraine or Taiwan because Americans get indignant when things happen they don't understand
4:22
that people make things happen by making policy choices
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and if they don't you know read the right sources of information and listen to the right people they'll
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constantly will be in the mode of constantly chasing events and improvising
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strategies to you know catch up and making short-term deals instead of
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driving events abroad which we ought to be doing in in a strategic planning mode
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instead of a reactive mode you talk about all the time well you've talked about a good bit with me just the
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importance of travel and outside of our comfort zone and better understanding other uh Geographic locations around the
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world um obviously it's it's super important for people to do that and I think when it comes to the Gaza and isra
5:09
Israel situation obviously those are locations that are very difficult to travel to currently um Israel's always
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been you know high on their security uh but for those that are you know obviously getting into and trying to
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better understand what's going on abroad um you know what would those resources be aside from a podcast like this what
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would those resources be that would help to better understand what's going on in those locations well first of all you

The Bigger Picture – Why This Conversation Matters
5:34
should travel as much as you can in the next 5 years as you can because Wars are
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going to break out more and more bigger Wars and once those start it's going to
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be very difficult to travel to certain places right and that will eventually
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include Europe which will be a tragedy especially for young people uh if you could can borrow the
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money rob it you know whatever you have to do travel while you can and not when
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you're old and you can't appreciate it for the rest of your life nothing like travel expands your frames of reference
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and your understanding of the world better than getting on an airplane and traveling around when you're young too
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you can go to stay inexpensively at youth hostels people uh adopt you uh be
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in groups because the white slave trade is active in both Europe and Asia so you
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got to be wary of that but um and and listen you know be don't be the Ugly
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American and pontificating how everyone ought to be grateful to us ask them
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bring them questions ask them what they think you'll get an earful and it will be difficult to hear for a while but
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you'll learn a lot from it and uh people can tell if you know what you're talking
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about overseas and they'll respect you I've never lost a relationship abroad by
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standing up for my country's honor but I haven't lost it either by admitting that
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when we've flubbed it because we've done we've made a lot of mistakes and when it's like anything
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when you settle on the truth you can reconcile your views with someone else
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and then you can move forward with a more constructive dialogue right uh so yes please travel and and don't think
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it's going to be available forever because the global situation is
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deteriorating and once war starts travel becomes more
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problematical um and there's going to be plenty of conversations in the future about the other conflicts that are going

Understanding the Israel-Gaza Conflict’s Global Impact
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on around the world specifically for tonight obviously Gaza and Israel is the the main focus so in kind of starting
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with you know the the reason for all of this right um the the breakout of this
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this conflict and this war um can we can we start there and just kind of give a
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little bit of a background on what really happened uh and obviously October 6 occurred but there's plenty before
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that so what has really led up to this this final Conflict um that's that's occurring now well first thing you have
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to understand is that it's not a senseless act of
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violence it was inevitable I don't know there are a lot of people who obey their
8:32
thought police and don't read the New York Times while of course the people who
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tell them not to read the Times read it every day it's the most important paper of record in the world and you'll never
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be able to catch up with everything that is in the times but it is a very
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important newspaper that the people who run the world read and it was I don't know it's in the
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summer of 2023 uh Tom fredman who's the ultimate
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kind of power columnist met in the white house with President Biden and Jake
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Sullivan and Anthony blinkin uh because they wanted to leak
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to him uh their legacy play for a pce in the Middle
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East uh which was brokering a US brokering of normalization of relations
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between Israel and Saudi Arabia now the context of this is under Donald
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Trump um the Israelis uh persuaded um Trump's son-in-law Jared
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Kushner in the United States to broker a normalization of relations between
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Israel and the emirat Emirates in in the
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Gulf the UAE cutter and and you know the

Historical Overview – Key Events Shaping the Conflict
10:04
other Gulf oil monarchies and and this was in addition
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to the Israeli C Egyptian Camp David Accords
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whereby Egyptians made peace with Israel and normalized relations and up to for the past 50
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years uh the pressure on Israel to negotiate in good faith uh with the
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Palestinians for a sovereign state next to them was um something that all of the
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Frontline Arab states insisted on as a a
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uh a requirement uh before they would normalize relations with them naturally
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the Israelis have used America power to get the these Arab states to normalize
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relations with them um while making you know vague Promises
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to the Palestinians uh that they would give them a state but as we know from the
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past 50 years and now explicitly as stated by Benjamin Netanyahu the
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Israelis never had any intention of giving the Palestinians a sovereign state next door to them and uh they have
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been mostly explicit about this but certainly
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implicit and uh lately explicit and one by one the Israelis got
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the United States to you know exert the pressure on these Arab states to do this
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and normalize their relationship with Israel and uh put the question of
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Palestinian statehood on the sidelines and at the same time the
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Israelis have even though they agreed in the Camp David Accords to stop making
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these illegal settlements on the West Bank um since Jimmy Carter brokered that
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peace treaty uh the settlements have gone up from you know a few th000 to
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over 800,000 and uh I'll go into the
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negotiations how why this matters to the peace negotiations later but is Israel has succeeded in planting
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almost a million Israelis on the West Bank all over that
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territory and the security protocols and the
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geographical um blockages to between you
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know the Palestinians doing anything on their own territory
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H they have been so complete that they make the possibility of Palestinian
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sovereignty and impossibility there's no contiguous
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Palestinian land now anyway and the Israelis always divert uh
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negotiations by inventing endless security protocols to protect these
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illegal settlements in their negotiations um in a way that runs out the clock on
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all negotiations and and it basically sabotages
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any treaty between the Palestinians and the Israelis completely which is the goal
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and uh the by destroying the possibility
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of a contiguous Palestinian State on the West Bank that way and by strategically
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isolating the Palestinians by Norm getting the United States to broker normalization of
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relations with all the other Arab states with Israel the Palestinians could see
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their future being traded away at a negotiating table to which they were conspicuously not
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invited and uh when Tom fredman published this article um the only demand for a
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Palestinian state was uh and Israeli promised not to bring these matters so
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far that it would be impossible to have a state and no specifics or no concrete
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measures no timelines uh no withdrawal schedule for
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any of these settlers was were written down the Palestinians could see that
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they were being abandoned by their fellow Arabs that the United States uh
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you know you know position with them being as endlessly quoted as were you know the United States is the only

The Role of the U.S. in the Middle East
15:05
country capable of delivering meaningful security
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uh concessions to the Palestinians from the Israelis that had become a joke I mean
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the United States hasn't pre pressed the Palestinians the the Israelis to make
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any concessions to the Palestinians or anybody and so the Palestinians could
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see their future disappearing before their eyes and the Saudi kingdom was the
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last Sovereign Arab country to uh to demand a Palestinian State as
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an exchange for normalized diplomatic relations and now that was going away so
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as soon as I saw that article I said we're going to have a war because out of
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desperation the Arabs the Palestinians would have to put themselves back on the
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agenda by fighting for their sovereignty and uh as it turns out the
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Israelis had captured a war plan that Hamas had drawn up and its
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intelligence Branch had done a very good job preparing for and that a bunch of
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women and shinb and the Mad intelligence service had uh discovered brought to the
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attention of the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and uh but he not only refused
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to listen to it but he shut down the unit that was bringing this information
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to the Israeli Defense Force which he also refused to allow to dribble for
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this scenario and uh he uh he continued to
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transfer billions of dollars in Palestinian taxes and foreign aid from
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the United States which he was he
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kept he was supposed to give it to the Palestinian National Authority which is the political administrative arm of the
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PLO which after the uh Oslo Accords in 1994 on television stood up in in in a
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unanimous vote to recognize Israel's right to exist and to State unequivocally that they were willing to
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negotiate with the Israelis for a two-state solution but uh
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Netanyahu has made it a policy to systematically humiliate and undermine
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the PLO and the PNA and uh the uh Palestinian
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administrative headquarters in rala and Elevate in palestine's Consciousness
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and the American Consciousness the role of Hamas so that he could Define the enemy is an implacable one you know use
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the River from to the Sea uh rhetoric although hamas's version of The River To
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The Sea doesn't sound too much different from the Israeli version of The River To The Sea which since Netanyahu says he
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wants to block any sovereignty and ultimately
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Annex uh the West Bank which would constitute an Israeli state from the
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river to the sea so they're they're fighting over land and the United and this is directly contrary to what the

What Led to October 7th? – Breaking Down the Attack
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United States promised the Palestinians and that the Israelis accepted as a
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condition of the aid the billions of dollars of Aid that we give them which is north of 80 billion dollars now which
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if you count it since it was before even 1948 when we recognized them uh is
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nearly half a trillion dollars in in current dollars and uh whenever we pressure them
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Netanyahu kind of waves his hands yeah yeah whatever and uh the and and all of
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the American negotiators are invariably Jewish themselves so the Palestinians don't exactly trust our or
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even-handedness and there's yet to be any uh evidence that we've
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pressured the the Israelis to make any meaningful concessions or negotiate in
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good faith and I can go into that the procedures by which the Israelis stall
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such negotiations and and obviously there's been no restraint by the United States
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on Israeli the Israelis actions since October 7th I mean all you have to do is
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look at the at Gaza and it's a it's a moonscape and radical Israeli settlers
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most of whom by the way or now I shouldn't say most many of whom are these altered Orthodox who don't even
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serve in the in the Israeli Army uh don't work they just study the Torah all
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day but they do do this weekend warrior thing of driving Palestinians off their
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own land they sexually humiliate them they terrorize them with guns in the
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midnight and midnight raids and and terrorize and kill people while the Israeli police the shined and the IDF
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watch on so and and during the war um
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the Israeli security Chief idar G benav wanted 70,000 guns from the United
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States to arm these Israeli settlers and any guns that didn't have US Army
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markings on them they put them on there because they implicate Us in everything they do uh even in the Lebanese Civil
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War the Lebanese factions were they consider the American University of Beirut to be their most uh precious
21:02
institution and so none of them used it as a uh as a as a base or a hiding spot
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for their different factions except for one the Israelis bombed the library to
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announce that we can do anything we want to you and the Americans will go on along with it well this is the
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impression that we've created so you know there has been no American
21:27
pressure on the Israel to concede anything and the idea that the raid on
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October 7th was senseless you know is just not true it was inevitable and and
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we unfortunately by not you know negot forcing the Israelis
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to negotiate good faith we kind of let it happen and and
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and Netanyahu who doesn't want to go to jail prolonged the war
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uh to to get everything done he he has successfully destroyed a lot of Iran's

Global Strategic Interests – Who's Involved & Why
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uh proxies Hezbollah the hotties which isn't probably a bad thing and uh there
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is a ceasefire going uh because and I have to give credit for Trump for this
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because Netanyahu was more afraid of trump saying look I want a deal and I want it now and he andp Trump said you
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know do it and and Netanyahu did a a ceasefire I mean he's
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done everything he want to do so it's not like it's he's made any meaningful concessions to the Palestinians but at
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least Trump put a stop to it but I'll give Trump credit for that but anyway that that's how the war got
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started you know going into the issues of how the negotiations are kind of a
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kabuki play at a force is that's something I'll go into that later but it
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was not a an outbreak of Senseless violence it was there was a strategic and a
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geopolitical rationale behind it so before we get into that uh some of your
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I mean obviously your opinions are um what some might consider to be
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controversial to a certain degree um they're not they're not what you hear on
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a daily basis also a lot a lot of what you just said I mean obviously a lot of that was very fact ual um but it was
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very much pointed at the the controversy and the issues related to how Israel has handled the entirety of the situation um
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I I'm curious to know what your thoughts are on on what comes next um what is
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what is the ultimate goal in your opinion because you also mentioned early on in the podcast that that there's you know in the next five years we most
23:50
likely going to be an allout War internationally so let's travel as much as possible so there's a lot of lot of
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statements or a few statements are made um along those lines so so what what really comes next in your opinion or as
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it relates to this conflict cuz of course as as of this past week they've been trying to negotiate and they've
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been discussing peace talks they've been releasing hostages uh supposedly but what comes
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next in all this in your opinion well the Israeli thousands of hostages so that they look good when you
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know they get when they get one Israeli soldier back but most of these people
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that they arrest haven't actually done anything they they're just hostages I mean it's just I mean a huge percentage
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of the of Arab people on the West Bank are in jail
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in Israeli prisons at any one time you can't make a posting on Facebook without
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shinb U monitoring you and you can be picked up for the slightest
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pretext and you don't even know why but you're in jail and this is just part of life on the West Bank um I mean when I
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was in uh at Bethany at the River Jordan where John the Baptist was uh baptized
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Jesus I was in Jordan but my cell phone said welcome to Israel and the Israelis I've heard this
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many times they want to attack Jordan uh Drive the Palestinians out of
25:25
the West Bank and into Jordan make at the Palestinian State and then enex the
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West Bank and when I've said wait a minute the kingdom of Jordan made peace with Israel and and Jordan is a treaty
25:38
Ally of the United States or virtually I mean what what would that what sen would
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that give anyone to make a peace treaty with Israel and the reaction I always
25:50
get as drug and you know too many people who
25:56
are in favor of Israel when pressed to The Logical conclusions of Israeli
26:03
policies you know the fact that they have no intentions of negotiating for a
26:08
peace treaty with the Palestinians that they're going against all every promise they've made to the United
26:13
States uh that they get more money from us than any other country and if they we
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tune we keenly ignore every request that we make um they just
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and I would suggest that the United States is not a country that should be Shrugged at and uh no country survives
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into the next Century by shrugging you you have to have a plan
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and um by there was an article in the times suggest talking about nanah who

Why Americans Should Travel & See the World Firsthand
26:52
said that he's he's going to rely on Israel's military power for their
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survival not a DI diplomatic solution with the uh Palestinians this is dangerous and and
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when I've asked um some of you know the students at Harvard and
27:13
Israelis uh if they understand the necessities of is Israel security from a
27:20
military point of view they not only shrug but they even ignore the the advice of their own
27:26
generals it's not an accident that most of the PE the Israeli peacemakers have
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been very decorated Israeli generals like ahood Barack and Mushi Diane and
27:39
and Ariel Chiron whereas those who are most in trans tend to be
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civilians and we have our own chicken hawks here people who have never worn a uniform but you know cry War you know
27:54
whenever every chance they get only they don't fight in it uh
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the Israelis actually need the Palestinians living next door to them in
28:06
the West Bank as human Shields why do I say this because once they drive the
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Palestinians out of Gaza which they've been trying to do by basically turning
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it into Berlin 1945 with the inaccurate comparison of
28:24
the Palestinians to the Nazis they are not Nazis um and and and real quick on this on
28:30
this point so you keep referencing the Palestinians obviously Hamas is is the main target here so can we just
28:36
delineate between the two um and give people a better understanding of the the different obviously the different
28:41
organizations within yes a lot of a lot of Palestinians are not were not pro
28:48
Hamas in fact they resented the control that Hamas on them
28:53
but if there weren't a lot of Hamas Porters before
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October 7th there are a lot more now I mean they the Israelis could
29:05
destroy every single uh company that Hamas has raised an army but they will
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be replaced by people who are just as fanatical or more so than they were
29:18
before the Roman Mongol brutality that they have
29:25
inflicted on Gaza I mean there has been no restraint although I've heard people
29:31
say that they were so gentle to Gaza and they were going to cash in on it in negotiations with the Palestinians that
29:37
one blew my mind but uh Hama they have
29:42
they have created uh they have demoralized the Palestinians into thinking about their
29:49
future but long term the rage is not going to diminish and
29:55
Hamas they they they said the same thing about the pl and now when when things get more and

The Abraham Accords & Changing Diplomatic Strategies
30:02
more radical they're going to wish that they had someone to negotiate with who was as willing to negotiate with them as
30:08
the pl was and uh they talk about the guy they they
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killed the head of Hamas because they cured his cancer and they said you know
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weren't be nice to cure cancer well of course the doc the oncologist who helped
30:27
his cancer also worked for shinb and asked and used his cancer to try to
30:32
recruit him for Israeli intelligence so and then they put it
30:38
around how ungrateful this guy was that he stood up for his people I mean you know if I were you know being had cancer
30:45
and I was treated by Vladimir Putin or xan ping for my cancer no I would not go
30:51
work for the Russians or they Chinese are you saying you turn John is that what you say yeah right really and also before we keep this
30:58
going you've mentioned the p and you've also mentioned um shinb um and mad uh
31:04
can we break down some of those real quick because I'm not sure that the vast majority of people listening probably have a kind of a hard time sorry that
31:11
those are have three they have many arms of intelligence and and I can on another
31:18
show I can tell you about how industri intelligence works but the the three
31:24
biggest organizations one is obviously the F or Israeli army military
31:31
intelligence um the second is mad which is uh the civilian intelligence
31:38
arm um there there's a saying in Israel every Spy a prince and their principal
31:46
Intelligence Officers are called katas and at any one time they were only
31:52
between 50 and 100 katas you know Supreme you know Israeli spies to you
31:58
know who are spy Masters uh and there are people who work for them but they are all you know functionaries I mean
32:07
whether they're secretaries or assassins or people who listen on in on radios or
32:16
or or just people who in America who keep a car a car that they can use for
32:23
an operation here in in their garage underneath their apartment
32:28
those people are not katas they're just people who want to help Israel and and
32:33
they can get a phone call and and they do little things for the is Israeli intelligence and and it's a very large
32:40
network but they're only about somewhere between 45 and 85 katas and then there's
32:46
shinb and shin BET's job is the security of the Israeli security and in the
32:53
occupied territories you know keeping an eye on every single person who lives in
32:58
Gaza and the West Bank and in the Goan Heights and you know what their names
33:03
are their political views their affiliation where they live where they went to school all that stuff so those
33:10
are the three biggest uh you know shinb is it's not like the FBI it's more of an
33:16
a military intelligence occupation Force right uh but run by civilians the Mad
33:23
which is like the Israeli CIA and Military Intelligence which is part of the IDF so so yeah those are the three
33:31
big you know arms of Israeli intelligence and then they have very
33:37
strong relations with different countries I mean they they run for example their their U if if there's a phone call
33:46
made in Europe it goes through Denmark I don't know I don't know how that got started they and and uh in
33:56
Holland they have a do who G because they get VD all the time I don't know
34:01
but anyway the the every Spy Prince that they they get around they're they they
34:07
live the good life when they're not uh defending Israel's security but uh they
34:12
it's a very well managed op organization I mean these people are not fools
34:18
right so those are the different The Big Three I just wanted to make sure we broke that down properly for those that
34:23
are listening because a lot of this gets thrown out there too uh it can be it can be difficult to follow there's a lot
34:29
going on also I I have a um it's it seems as though and I know you're just
34:34
trying to to provide as much information as possible a lot of this has been um I
34:40
don't know that it's not anti-israel but it's maybe anti the the the way they're
34:45
going about what they're doing well it there's there's a narrative out there of Israel being this innocent actor you
34:54
know inexplicably attacked by people who just hate them for no good reason and it
35:01
is a fight over land and what I was going after before about the need for
35:06
Israel to have Palestinians living next to them is that the West Bank was
35:12
captured by mosha Diane in 1967 to give Israel strategic depth in an era of tank
35:20
warfare but now we're in we are in an era of nuclear tipped
35:26
missiles and if someone like Iran or Pakistan because

Hamas vs. The Palestinian Authority – Internal Power Struggles
35:32
Pakistan has nuclear weapons financed by the Saudis pearls a nuclear weapon at
35:37
Israel now they will inevitably kill millions of Palestinians on the West
35:44
Bank and then Gaza so they can't nuke Israel if on the other hand Israel
35:50
drives the Palestinians out of Gaza and the West Bank and only Israelis Israeli
35:56
Jews are living in those places then the the Muslim Fanatics could hurl
36:02
nuclear weapons at Israel and the occupied territories and only kill Jews which would be a tragedy because Jews
36:10
have always been on the list of persecuted people is Jews need a place
36:16
to go when they're persecuted and uh by
36:23
driving um the Arab Muslim Palestinians out of their land they are creating a
36:29
lucrative Target for Muslim Fanatics to attack them and I I am criticizing
36:37
Israel a lot but I know it needs to exist and that it has by refusing to
36:44
negotiate in good faith for the past 30 years during which America's Global
36:50
power was unassailable uh they could have got a very good deal and the United States
36:57
could have used its power to habituate the extremists on both sides to living in peace with the Israelis and and the
37:04
extremists in on the Israeli side to living in peace with the Palestinians that time has been
37:10
squandered and a lot of Israelis on the political right are relying on Americans
37:17
in the political right and particularly in the Republican party and in particularly Evangelical Christians who
37:25
believe Israel's uh founding date uh in 1948 as the beginning of the ticking
37:33
clock on the uh end times is described by the Bible and and uh and
37:42
Revelations but if I think this is a very dangerous bet
37:49
because the American right-wing is already trafficking in anti-jewish
37:56
conspiracy series citing George Soros the the Rothchild family and
38:03
Donald Trump has derived considerable support from the Israeli right-wing
38:10
but if anyone in this earth is capable of flipping on you it is Donald Trump
38:17
who has uh uh got a considerable re
38:22
support from the Christian evangelicals and
38:28
is you know I mean over 10 years ago the Republican party was the hawk party
38:34
against the Russians for different reasons we know about having to do with Vladimir Putin
38:41
now Trump is pro- Russian and he has dragged the Republican party with them it would not take much to change
38:49
the Republican uh litmus test to being anti-jewish and
38:55
anti-israel with Donald Trump in the the White House and this is something is I I
39:00
fear as much as I I I believe the Israelis are jeopardizing their
39:05
future uh by not making peace in a sea of a 100 million Arabs and Muslims
39:12
hundreds of millions of Arabs and in trusting Donald Trump and the American
39:18
rightwing which is already uh having a love affair with Putin who's verly
39:25
anti-semitic Victor Orban of Hungary who was violently anti-semitic uh all of the right-wing in
39:32
Germany and and uh the Netherlands and in Austria they're all talking
39:39
anti-jewish makes me very uncomfortable so but they keep telling
39:44
me Oh we have the Christian evangelicals and the American right wi I don't think they're the people you want to count on
39:52
and by accepting three invitations to speak to the American con
39:58
by the Republicans uh Netanyahu
40:03
has uh not only alienated the permanent professional National Security establishment in mass in in the United
40:12
States but by accepting the invitation to criticize Democrats in a presidential

Israel’s Settlement Expansion & Its Impact on Stability
40:19
election year nyah's turned Israel and and the pro-israel consensus
40:26
in the United States into to a partisan issue when it used to be that we were all for Israel and young people don't
40:33
have the same emotional commitment to Israel's security that my generation has
40:39
and they don't even know history you ask them you know you mention the Holocaust to them and they either become irritated
40:46
or they say what's that and I have to remind them of the horrors you know
40:52
committed against the Jews and uh but these hon and Evangelical people they
41:00
start talk about the same tropes against the Jews that led to
41:06
disaster in under Hitler so you know but but Netanyahu is not about
41:14
details and he he's a narcissist and he he by
41:19
identifying his own fate with all Jews
41:25
and saying that if you're against you must be anti-semitic he is provoking a backlash
41:32
on Jews because he's turning Jews into his own
41:38
personal uh human Shields and as a president of a Jewish
41:43
fraternity I do not like that and uh even though I'm not Jewish
41:49
I'm pro-jewish although it probably doesn't sound like I am but I am but you
41:54
know the situation on the ground requ requires an awareness of the
42:00
details and U if you want to know the details of Israel security I suggest you
42:07
look up har harats ha A A A TZ and the
42:13
works of the uh Israeli generals who are much more sensitive to Israeli security
42:20
than the civilian Fanatics who preach biblical prophecy and you know use that
42:27
as the right to take over the Palestinians land which as I've said
42:33
creates a very dangerous nuclear lucrative nuclear Target um and Heaven Help Us if American
42:40
global power collapses because Israel is by Mo and Saudi Arabia most of those
42:47
regimes over there are indulgences of American global power and if to the extent that American
42:55
global power is being diminished to the extent that uh he has undermined the
43:02
power and The Prestige of our permanent uh National Security establishment which
43:07
sees itself as maintaining our security alliances uh despite the changes in
43:14
political in the political flavor of our alliances you know he's undermining the
43:20
people who keep the commitment to Israel security because Israel in the United
43:25
States do not have a treaty uh Mutual defense treaty only the moral obligation of the American uh National
43:34
Security establishment keeps that going and Trump and Israel and Netanyahu has
43:41
alienated that I mean and even I talked to some uh kids on campus and when uh
43:48
the state department asked uh the Israeli right-wing to stop telling their
43:54
Pro Zionist uh students the extremist on the college campuses to stop hunting Pro
44:00
Palestinian kids they not only did not do so but they started doxing them and
44:06
denouncing them to Future employers which means that they're to breed a
44:13
whole generation of anti-semites for Generations which is horrible so you
44:21
know it's like he when John mimer wrote book on the Israeli
44:28
Lobby and you know said that the Israelis are doing these policies
44:34
because they can because they've got so much political power in Congress M shimer was Den denounced is but nyaho
44:43
believes in the shimer thesis and is using it to the point of a break its
44:48
breaking point and with and he's on the he's
44:55
practically shattering the pro is is consensus in the United States that's very dangerous because I we have to help

Is a Larger Regional War Coming?
45:02
Israel survive but he has equated Israel's survival to his own Survival so
45:09
John I'm gonna just real quick I'm gonna kind of go back here what I appreciate the most about our conversations is
45:14
always that you know you and I don't align on everything politically U but at the end of the day we get to have these conversations and delve into the
45:20
perspective and the strategy that you're thinking through um obviously your perspective is invaluable but also as it
45:26
relates to Strat I don't think many people are thinking through um what you just what you just unfolded for us right
45:32
that's why I'm saying it so that people are aware of the D but when we when we started the podcast it obviously was
45:39
very like anti a lot of what Israel is doing anti their political figures um it very much so thinking to myself okay are
45:46
we getting into this as a very anti-israel podcast and the more that we've gone through this the more I obviously realized you are as pro-israel
45:52
as possible and your reasons being are that mainly we we we we want to make sure that we um think about the
45:59
long-term strategic protection of Israel um in a in a different way um than what
46:05
maybe people are thinking of because when we think of October 7th we think of the Hamas attacks on Israel we we
46:10
ultimately a lot of people um don't have the other context right which you are obviously providing throughout this
46:15
entire conversation it's amazing um but don't have the context that that you have and don't have the information that
46:21
you have to be able to think through it as strategically um so as it relates to you know what the the ideal scenario is
46:29
for Israel and their growth uh and their stability and their protection where do
46:35
you draw the line in the sand I guess that's the question right at the end of the day because it with with the
46:40
destruction of Gaza with the destruction well the plan destruction of Hamas um
46:45
potential annexation of right they're all dead right they're all I mean Gaz is
46:51
destroyed Hamas is D I mean they're all dead right what will will be different
46:58
people with the same wine there is new bottles if they're dead and I'm just if they're dead who is negotiating for them
47:05
right now well no one is someone more extreme will emerge that's what I don't
47:10
like I mean we're gonna have we're going everyone's going to hope that the the
47:17
Palestinian National Authority which is the PLO will be an acceptable acceptable
47:23
negotiator now Arabs I mean Netanyahu spent so much time humiliating and and
47:29
degrading their Prestige that Palestinians may not be willing to you
47:35
know agree to the concessions that the PNA makes but if the PNA deliv the goods
47:43
then the Palestinians will go on I have to stop you one more time the PLO and the PNA can you describe this the
47:52
PLO the PLO negotiated the Oslo cords of 19
47:57
94 and what came out of that was the political administrative organization
48:03
that runs the West we call that the Palestinian National Authority and
48:09
headquartered in in rala Netanyahu thought it was clever to divide well
48:16
divide rule divide and conquer to divide the Palestinians by making the West Bank
48:22
the Pres of the PLO PNA and Gaza the the uh part of pal the
48:32
Palestine that was run by Hamas right and then and then so that divided the
48:37
Palestinians in two and then he got to see uh the Hamas wants the river to the
48:43
Sea they're impossible there's no negotiating with them we've got to destroy them that was the strategy now
48:50
that the Hamas is destroyed its command structure has been destroyed and the
48:56
only people willing to negotiate with the is Israelis is are are in the
49:01
PNA we're going to have to talk to the PNA but right now Netanyahu says he
49:07
doesn't want to talk to the PNA and he doesn't want to have a Palestinian State
49:13
and a lot of Israelis think it's an intolerable gun to their head but if you
49:18
know the logical conclusion of what they're doing is they're going to drive all the Palestinians out which creates a
49:24
lucrative Target which is dangerous and at a certain point the United States
49:30
will Tire of protecting them which I don't want I want us to protect them I you know I but
49:39
that's going to that the Israeli settlers are going to have to be removed from the West Bank
49:46
and uh there is no consensus in Israel for that to happen
49:51
so it's I mean that has to be the future if
49:57
you want peace you know with the Palestinians but netanyahu's been trying
50:03
to go around that by normalizing relations with all the Arab states and
50:08
telling the Palestinians you're out no one cares about you you know live with it or die with it right and and that's
50:16
not and that's not good for the United States for a variety of reasons war with
50:21
China is coming and we're going to need and the Chinese are going to sponsor a war of
50:29
Revenge among Muslims and Arabs against us we need them on our side we cannot

Netanyahu’s Political Strategy & Israel’s Next Moves
50:35
it's not possible if you've demonized and bombed someone for 50 years you cannot surge an alliance with an entire
50:44
civilization and we have effect in the Middle East we have effectively outsourced our strategy in the Middle
50:50
East to Saudi Arabia and to Israel and every if you just listen to to the
50:57
debates you'll hear on talk shows in America ask any question and people will
51:04
say well that will affect Israel or that will affect the Saudis forgetting wait a
51:10
minute we support the Saudis and the Israelis because we get things we're
51:15
supposed to get things from them they're supposed to be America's Imperial instruments in the region we are not
51:22
supposed to be theirs that balance has been perverted we are we have become
51:29
their tools instead of the reverse and as someone who wants American policy in
51:36
America for American purposes I want the Saudi to be worrying
51:43
about what we want and I want the Israelis trembling at our displeasure
51:49
not the reverse but you know that's where we
51:54
are we're gonna have to we have to retake control of America's policy in
52:00
the Middle East from Saudi Arabia and Israel you also referenced a war with
52:08
China and this is something that we are planning on covering in a future episode
52:14
um so I don't want to get too much into it but as it relates to Chinese influence in the Israeli
52:20
Gaza um conflict what has their invol they and the Iranians have been very
52:25
helpful with missiles and weapons for Hamas and uh Hezbollah and the
52:33
houis uh the Chinese brokered a truce between Saudi Arabia and
52:40
Iran they have been very helpful to the uh Syrian regime
52:47
although uh our efforts in Ukraine's
52:52
behalf have so absorbed Russia's B with and her power that Russia's influence in
53:01
the former Soviet Union states of Central Asia has collapsed as evidenced
53:06
by The Surge of Chinese influence and its belt and Road initiative in Soviet
53:12
Central Asia uh the fact that the Russian protectorate in Armenia they had
53:18
to surrender their Province their Armenian ethnic province of negoro kabak to the azerbaijanis were
53:27
Allied to the Iranians the Armenians pleaded for help from the Russians they
53:32
said sorry we're too wrapped up in Ukraine you're on your own and uh and of
53:37
course Syria was totally dependent on Russian help to survive the Assad regime
53:43
the Russians couldn't help them there so the American effort again in Ukraine has
53:49
wholly absorbed Uh Russian power uh it has I mean the United States really did
53:55
want to invade Russia it could go north of Ukraine through
54:01
Belarus go south through the stand countries of Central Asia uh Russia's
54:06
back door is wide open for Chinese invasion in Siberia
54:13
um and and of course Russia's wholly mortgaged its economic sovereignty to
54:19
the Chinese so um so we have not only lost the trat
54:26
strategic initiative in the Middle East and Central Asia to China uh but so have
54:32
the Russians and uh the Chinese are surging their influence in that region Pakistan
54:40
and uh inan and the uh emirati Gulf uh
54:46
petrol monarchies um and that's and they're making friends and and weapons deals
54:55
building ports and other things and uh either Hutches and monpa last time I

The Media’s Role in the Conflict
55:02
looked uh the Hong you forly a British Hong Kong E port now owned by the
55:07
Chinese is running this us Canal people keep talking about how that we could cut
55:13
the Egyptians off of their money because they want our money what money is that
55:19
we're in Hawk to the world for the tune of trillions of dollars and there are lots of other countries that can give
55:25
Egypt money namely the Chinese who are surging their
55:30
influence in the region because we've outsourced our policy to Saudis and the
55:36
Israelis and um the Russian influence that did exist has collapsed utterly
55:43
because of its exhaustion in the war in
55:49
Ukraine so you know if we're going to have a future we have to retake our
55:54
policy and we have to realize the Russian influence in the region is a fiction in fact our own power in the
56:01
Middle East is a fiction beneath our military bases we are a one-dimensional
56:07
power in the Middle East we have no political uh Power we have lost control
56:13
of the historical narrative uh we have even lost control of our own historical narrative I mean
56:20
the PE when people read about American history it's from the the disgusting
56:25
Howards in in his people's History of the United States and and uh and the
56:31
horrible gome Chomsky who've convinced our own young people as well as the
56:36
world that America's ideals are all a con well they aren't a con but that's
56:42
because we don't have a soft power strategy in the region and because our
56:48
political influence is a fiction uh because the amadis and the
56:54
Saudis and the Israelis you know our Senators and congressmen
57:00
when they set up their lobbying shingles they were all panting after Sai and U
57:06
Kuwaiti and amirati and and uh chi even Chinese uh
57:12
clients when it should be the reverse I mean so we don't have a strategy in the
57:18
Middle East we have to have one I mean I'm prepared to discuss that but first I
57:23
had to talk about how we are our power is being used and it's there is hardly any way
57:31
and we haven't alienated so we have a lot of power militarily but beneath that we don't
57:39
have any control over the narrative on the street so what is the the the move
57:44
in the Middle East um moving forward once again kind of an an Ideal World and from a strategic perspective uh if
57:51
moving forward you were in charge of strategy for US Government relation US foreign relationss what would you do
57:58
well first of all we have to re we have to basically we cannot trust the Israelis to negotiate in good faith with
58:06
the Palestinians for a state uh for the Palestinians I I'll I'll describe what
58:13
they do in their negotiations every president goes for their legacy play um in the last two
58:20
years of their Administration you know they do their middle east peace thing the Israelis are very
58:27
sophisticated and they have this down to science and they run out the clock on the Americans that's what we're called
58:34
The Americans not our friends not our great patrons not our protectors the
58:40
Americans so first they use up as much time as they can describing uh horrible Palestinian
58:47
Terror tactics on the on you know some Israeli you know victim who's a Frank
58:55
opa you know nice person and we feel real badly about that and then and then
59:02
once that's done then they uh go to the next phase which is they demand that the
59:09
Palestinians make all sorts of security protocols to Encompass every possible
59:16
security risk to the S Israeli settlers on the West Bank and they contrive endless scenarios
59:23
that the is the Palestinians are supposed to reassure them on and that uses up weeks and until someone says
59:31
wait a minute you people aren't supposed to be on the West Bank anyway you promised you wouldn't be you said you'd
59:37
withdraw and then when that that happens then the Israelis a temper tantrum they
59:43
start packing their bags some of them even do fake anxiety attacks and they
59:48
threaten to leave and by the time we get into real protocols for withdrawals the
59:54
Americans have out their political clock has gone and the narrative has put out
59:59
all the Palestinians would have got their deal if they only had made one more concession it it's the whole thing

How Does This End? Possible Resolutions & Ongoing Conflicts
1:00:05
is a kabuki play and unless we reverse that we will have no Prestige no
1:00:13
credibility as a Tribune and an honest broker in the region at all secondly we
1:00:18
have to retake our influence from the Saudis the Saudis uh have
1:00:27
you spent a trillion dollars radicalizing every mosque in the
1:00:32
world and to a their wahhabist salvis
1:00:38
version of Islam which the original jurist of this uh denounced as a
1:00:45
heresy said there're a bunch of Taliban nuts basically that was done back in the 19th and early 20th century but the
1:00:53
Saudis especially after the Iranian Revolution decided they had to get religious Li
1:00:59
Liberty so they bought off these the family the I forget the family's name in
1:01:05
Saudi in the Arabian Peninsula that is the custodian of this salvis radical
1:01:10
version of Islam to say we should rule forever uh say we're good guys and we'll
1:01:16
Finance your mosks and so this has radicalized Islam you know everywhere in
1:01:22
the world and we have done nothing to stop it and and the Saudis didn't even repress their own radical Muslims until
1:01:30
we put uh uh several divisions in Iraq next a in the anbar province of Saudi
1:01:38
Arabia next to the Saudi border then the Saudis got nervous that we were going to
1:01:43
invade them well frankly we should uh tell the Saudis who whose boss they're
1:01:50
not the original legitimate uh Protectors of the holy places known is
1:01:56
the sharifs uh of Mecca and Medina the original sharifs are the hashimite
1:02:02
family who are direct descendants of the Prophet uh they uh they are the rulers
1:02:09
of uh Jordan uh his majesty the king uh
1:02:14
Abdullah II is a hashimite a direct descendant of the prophet he is a more
1:02:20
liberal uh custodian of Islam uh if his people were running the
1:02:26
hijaz which is the region of Saudi Arabia that where the Mecca and Medina
1:02:32
are we would not have as much radicalism uh and uh all that money
1:02:39
wouldn't be going to radical mosques and uh the Saudis keep trying to
1:02:45
uh get rid of their feeling of embarrassment that we protect them by calling American soldiers mercenaries
1:02:52
which really irritates me and my Army friend friends and um you know we
1:03:00
should secure a change of leadership in that country I don't think much of uh
1:03:06
Muhammad bin solman who is just as uh contemptuous of us as Netanyahu and
1:03:12
there's a famous picture of he and Vladimir Putin vigorously shaking hands with a big smile on how they put one
1:03:19
over on the Americans um I didn't like that um and
1:03:25
we have to do a soft power strategy in that region because the Saudis and the before we di into that can you explain
1:03:32
to people the difference between well really what soft power oh yes sorry well
1:03:39
um it's hard to believe but back in the 8th Century um Islam was a liberal
1:03:48
Empire um I give you one example if a woman was were accused of
1:03:55
adultery she was not guilty unless four men testified that she was
1:04:03
guilty the solists have turned that Doctrine on its
1:04:09
head to say that any man can accuse a woman of adultery and unless she is
1:04:15
exonerated by four men she's automatically
1:04:20
guilty which is you know unfair to say the least but that gives you an idea of how how Islam has been Twisted into a
1:04:29
hor horrifying U fanatical version of Islam that we're
1:04:36
living and dying with today they and the Amores are so unsure
1:04:43
of their legitimacy as rulers that they are constantly paying
1:04:49
off these radicals who are basically in a religious protection
1:04:54
racket uh saying that we'll denounce you unless you you know give the most
1:05:00
radical of our imams money and I when I surveyed uh a mosque in
1:05:07
Cambridge um and interviewed a bunch of their um
1:05:14
worshippers um I met 40-year-old men who were indeed virgins because of their
1:05:21
radical interpretation of Islam 40-year-old virgin well no wonder you're
1:05:27
blowing stuff up um so this is the kind of U uh fanaticism that is bred by a

What Should the U.S. Do? Policy Challenges & Recommendations
1:05:37
combination of repression sexual frustration uh the fact that the vast
1:05:42
majority of people who are ruled by these countries have no say in the way
1:05:48
they are governed they have little to no Freedom or agency in their private lives
1:05:54
because when you've got a a regime that uses the the morality card to control your
1:06:02
personal life uh that includes inside your house and if a regime controls
1:06:09
everything you do inside your own household it basically has eliminated
1:06:14
any free space and freedom of any kind in life in your Society at
1:06:20
all and that's the kind of control that these imams want and they've got an
1:06:25
unlimited supply of oil money to pay imams who preach this who pay suicide
1:06:33
bombers who do actually ensure their families of some Financial Security
1:06:40
because these poor kids of course it's never the rich kids who do it are persuaded to kill themselves and
1:06:47
other people and then their families get a huge amount of money and and they're
1:06:53
and they're once their families do that they get they they buy their way into Europe or the United
1:06:59
States so it it's a version of Islam that cannot reconcile itself with life
1:07:07
and is not a wave of the future but that's the version of Islam that
1:07:13
prevails in the Gulf it is not the version of Islam that prevails in place even in in Cairo
1:07:22
where the major the mahadin and the Muslim
1:07:27
Brotherhood is still powerful but the influence of
1:07:32
Cosmopolitan uh Scholars uh who have been educated in the west who talk with the west or have
1:07:40
much more political influence and social influence and is saying in in the Middle
1:07:46
East that books are written in Cairo published in Beirut and read in
1:07:53
Iraq and if the United States had a covert plan to subsidize the
1:07:59
Cosmopolitan intellectuals of Cairo and and uh
1:08:05
Lebanon we could subsidize and help the intellectuals of Arabia and Islam take
1:08:14
back the uh cultural narrative from the
1:08:19
Fanatics of the gulf who substitute extremism for their own for the fact
1:08:26
that they've only been out of the desert for about three generations and have no real Prestige as intellectuals unlike
1:08:33
the intellectuals of of Cairo where the United States also has another University the American University of
1:08:41
Cairo uh you know we can't out argue these people but the intellectuals of
1:08:46
Cairo can and of Beirut but we but no one's subsidizing them if the United
1:08:52
States does we could get a Reconciliation of the West in Islam a democracy in
1:09:00
Islam uh and life and death and uh and that's that's an example of soft power
1:09:06
strategy that we have not tried because we have persisted in this belief that all Arabs and Muslims are nothing but
1:09:14
terrorists but if you travel there especially in Old Arabia where the
1:09:21
Levant and Egypt and Jordan and you know people are much more Cosmopolitan than
1:09:27
secular you'll find that they watch American movies and TV and do
1:09:34
not subscribe at all to the wing nuts who get all these millions of dollars of
1:09:40
subsidies from the Gulf oil monarchies who only give them money because they're
1:09:45
afraid of them another Direction I'd like to take this into is uh better understanding
1:09:52
Iran's involvement in all of the above uh you've mentioned it a few times but I
1:09:58
I think giving the the people that are listening a better understanding of the Iranian involvement and all the above

Iran’s Influence in the Middle East
1:10:04
would just be super beneficial and better understanding the conflict specifically between Gaza and Israel so
1:10:11
the Iranians armed Hamas they're the people the Iranian
1:10:17
people are the most pro-american people in the Middle East now you put out you
1:10:22
go to an Iranian soccer game and someone pulls out an American flag the whole
1:10:28
crowd cheers and and the the Iranian police try to capture it people pass it
1:10:34
around and show it up you know um but the Iranian regime is no friend of
1:10:39
ours um and uh and they are arming the
1:10:45
Russians uh and they are arming terrorists who want to bomb us and uh uh
1:10:52
the Chinese are loving this and they are sharing their missile technology with
1:10:57
the Iranians and uh and their drone
1:11:02
technology and of course they're sharing drone technology with the
1:11:07
Russians and uh and drones with the Hamas um
1:11:16
and and with Hezbollah and the hooes U they are very
1:11:23
dangerous uh regime the difference between the Arab
1:11:29
Petro monarchies and the Iranian regime is
1:11:35
that we could go in with our military and topple any one of the oil petol
1:11:42
monarchies in the Gulf in a day that would not be possible in Iran because
1:11:50
the Iranian Islamic Republic is like
1:11:56
Persian Society it because it's it's Persia it is a vast deep truly ancient
1:12:04
civilization and the regime's tentacles and its support even though the most of
1:12:10
the people are pro American are dispersed they are extensive they are
1:12:16
deeply organized they have block committies uh on every in every
1:12:22
neighborhood of Iran they have these I I actually I I could we could have
1:12:29
another meeting about talking about the Iranian U uh uh the regime the structure
1:12:36
of the regime I think it'd be I think it a great idea a good really good friend of mine is um from Iran and we he's
1:12:43
actually the only reason I know the the that you know the Iranians actually the vast majority actually like America is
1:12:49
because of him and the knowledge that he's shared with me over the years um but I would probably wouldn't have known
1:12:54
that otherwise I think what's also you know be interesting to do as a full episode on just the structure of Iran in
1:13:00
general um I am curious to know about these two Supreme Court could knock it over we couldn't knock it over that what
1:13:07
I'm saying is we couldn't knock it over yeah I mean and if we attacked it even
1:13:12
the people who are on our side would be indignant you know at us bombing them
1:13:19
and and and and and find it inexplicable that we don't understand
1:13:25
that they like us but the regime has its tentacles everywhere and even
1:13:32
if you know the Ayatollah kamman
1:13:38
died the irgc is so big it's not just like the Russian secret
1:13:45
police uh you know which was scared of Stalin as you know every as is it scar
1:13:54
they scare kamani the irgc the Iranian revolutionary guard is as powerful as
1:14:01
the mullet they are their own state within a state yeah so knocking over the
1:14:06
Iranian regime would not be easy sorry to interrupt there I just no I I was
1:14:12
kind of following up on current events though the two Supreme Court members in Iran that were just murdered um it did
1:14:19
that have anything to do with I frankly I have not read enough about it yet um but I just know if you knew anything
1:14:25
about that situation and maybe what happened there I don't I I if if two
1:14:32
Iranian supreme court they might have been the guardian Council or the
1:14:37
inspy committee I mean as I say it's it would be an episode to just describe the
1:14:44
structure of the regime right it is more likely that someone had it in for
1:14:49
someone inside Iran and they murdered them as part of
1:14:55
L well and I think bringing Iran into the mix is obviously super important obviously as it relates to Israel um and

How This Conflict Affects the U.S. & Its Global Standing
1:15:01
Hamas the Palestinians Gaza Etc because obviously during all of this Iran has also fired on um Israel directly a
1:15:09
number of times yes it has um and I I'd like to kind of break that down a little
1:15:14
bit because it always seems as though uh the strategy is to show Force but not
1:15:19
cause destruction um knowing that the Iron Dome is going to basically intercept the majority of the missiles
1:15:26
um is that is that a a correct assumption um obviously they want to
1:15:31
show that they're they're responding and they're showing force and they don't want but they don't want to cause too much destruction because they don't want
1:15:36
allout war um what is maybe the reasoning for that is that correct they
1:15:41
don't want an allout War y I mean you know Netanyahu has been trying to get us into an allout War for 30 years I mean
1:15:49
part of his brutality against Gaza was in that it would provoke the
1:15:56
Iranians into an allout attack which of course was supplemented by the attacks
1:16:01
by the hooes on our shipping and that he would drag us into a war uh but neither the Iranians nor
1:16:09
President Biden would fall for that one the last thing we need is a war with
1:16:16
Iran because the israelies would be with us in the first two waves of air strikes
1:16:22
against Iran but we would be left holding the can for a 10-year war with Iran when we need to be building up our
1:16:29
strength for the war with China we do not need a war with Iran and uh uh but
1:16:38
the Iranians did their bit to show their solidarity but they were too smart to be
1:16:45
drawn into an allout war with Israel um and we exerted our that was a
1:16:51
red line for uh for Biden he did tell the Netanyahu know you can't we're not
1:16:57
going to do an all out war with the Iranians so you're right about that
1:17:04
wonderful um that's in in kind of covering that
1:17:10
particular topic is there anything else that we have not discussed that that needs to be hit on as it relates to
1:17:17
let's say specifically Israel and Gaza we we talked a lot of a lot of this is very Middle Eastern focused um but this
1:17:24
particular conflict what do we what else do people need to know or where should they get their information as it relates
1:17:30
to these things moving forward because once again a lot of this is not not information that I feel like a lot of us consume on a daily basis these are um
1:17:38
these are interesting opinions and perspectives uh I once again greatly appreciate you hopping on to discuss
1:17:43
them but what else is there to discuss on this matter well there's a lot I I'll have to look at my notes Here I I mean
1:17:51
the reason people haven't heard this stuff is because it's not like the information isn't there you have to look
1:17:58
for it you have to read the Times y I would also recommend the Atlantic um
1:18:04
which was founded in my town conquered Massachusetts um um that's kind of
1:18:12
America's if America had a magazine for an American Empire I think the Atlantic would would be it um I would recommend
1:18:20
Rand corporation uh I would re you the this
1:18:25
the defense department has a profusion and and Rand corporation which is run by
1:18:32
the defense department they have a tremendous number of reports on all of these issues which are all free which
1:18:40
you can subscrib to from the US government um that will tell you all
1:18:45
about this stuff I would recommend haret which is an Israeli publication ha A A
1:18:53
TZ uh.com uh which I've subscribed to
1:19:01
um um there's uh you know
1:19:07
there the Middle East people Americans don't know this stuff
1:19:13
because Americans are con concerned about what's going on in America yeah and they only hear a small narrative
1:19:21
about you know Israel being a small country and a CA of hatred and that's
1:19:26
all they know but when we talk about this stuff we find out that there are a
1:19:31
lot more details into what goes on then you would know just you
1:19:38
know but it takes some work to to find that stuff out and some of a lot a lot
1:19:44
of what I've said you know doesn't suit well because it doesn't fit into a simple narrative and they will even say
1:19:51
John you're complicating things I can assure you the Middle East is complicated all on its own doesn't need
1:19:58
me to complicate it doesn't need you to complicate no but by describing the complexity I'm not you know you know

The Risk of Global Conflict – Will It Expand Beyond the Region?
1:20:06
complicating it I'm just you know I may not tell you what you want to hear but I can assure you if you're on the ground
1:20:12
in the Middle East um you know you're up to your neck
1:20:18
and complexity right and it's it isn't Fun For People let me just look here um
1:20:28
um it's um you know I can tell you one thing
1:20:33
when I I volunteered for Iraq and I and I uh and I defended our
1:20:40
second occupation of Iraq um on Arab soil I am probably still
1:20:46
the only although I admit we totally mismanaged that war I'm probably one of
1:20:51
the only people on the East Coast who still favors the war in Iraq both of them and volunteered to go there four
1:21:00
times and still wishes we could have turned it into a protectorate state in
1:21:08
fact when I talked to the Arabs they said you know why are you in Iraq I said because it's the most strategic country
1:21:14
in the Middle East it's anbar province has more oil than Saudi Arabia and Iran
1:21:20
put together and I want it to be you know an American protectorate part
1:21:29
of the they said oh an American we could talk to we like this and you know what
1:21:35
the Arabs wanted they wanted to know if we were going to make Iraq into the next Germany or South Korea or Japan that's
1:21:42
what they they had even watched the the wonderful 1960s movie uh the mouse that
1:21:48
roared that said that all you had to do is declare war in the United States lose
1:21:53
it and the Americans are come in and fix your economy at their expense that's what they wanted and when I
1:21:59
said that that was not on the agenda they were indignant and I know it wasn't on rumsfeld's agenda because when he was
1:22:07
running for president I had breakfast with him in one of his old men's clubs in Boston and uh he didn't think much of
1:22:14
me I didn't think much of him either and I said asked him if he had considered this and he looked at me like I was you
1:22:21
know off my head I said well this is what they want and he said no no no he rums and and
1:22:29
Rumsfeld fancied himself a great strategist but you know and he was all
1:22:35
for this uh the transformation of the military which he totally flubbed he he
1:22:41
did a McKenzie study to reduce the number of crewman on every ship to give
1:22:47
every crewman you know seven or eight different functions uh which means that if any
1:22:53
take casualties huge gaps in a naval vessel's execution skills emerge and the ship can't
1:23:01
function and if you've noticed that in the Navy several years ago American US
1:23:06
Navy vessels were crashing into each other in the in northeast station was because the the ships were so exhausted
1:23:14
the crews were so exhausted they were bumping into each other that was rumfelt following
1:23:19
McKenzie and you know trying to tell him this was like talking to a wall and and
1:23:26
he tried to soften every story by referring to people as folks and every
1:23:32
story was cute and by the time we left the the the breakfast and and we walked
1:23:39
out the front door of this club which you know Eddie Murphy invaded in one of a wonderful Movie Trading Places you got
1:23:47
the feel that if he saw a child a and riding in pain on the sidewalk he'd step
1:23:52
over the child and and say that reminds me of a cute story about some folks I he's a hard man uh and he's
1:24:02
just you know he didn't realize that by controlling the oil of the Middle East
1:24:08
if the Chinese start you know continue with you know embarking uh rare earth
1:24:15
metals on us and pharmaceuticals and certain other manufactured goods we
1:24:23
would have our foot the their throats by cutting off their oil supply which was my agenda which I
1:24:31
told him and I had you know no qualms at all about exerting this Imperial power
1:24:39
and because actually because these oil monarchies are there because we protect
1:24:46
them and they ought to do what we tell them to do and no arguments well you
1:24:52
know he became one of their lobbyist so I didn't think much of his patriotism and uh uh by controlling Iraq
1:25:03
Not only would we have you know control
1:25:08
the the the entire region and China's oil supply but we would have avoided all
1:25:16
of these uh uh Civil Wars and the migrants would have been going to Iraq
1:25:23
to to live the American way because we would be extending the American Empire
1:25:29
there instead of they coming to our Shores in Europe and destabilizing our

China, Russia & The Middle East – The Role of Other Superpowers
1:25:36
politics and uh none of this have made any impression on
1:25:42
Rumsfeld if you can't tell I really dislike the guy uh Jerry Bremer was a
1:25:47
jerk too he I met at in Kan new Kane in Connecticut he was an empty suit anyway
1:25:54
we totally mismanaged that and rumsfield passed away in what 2021 is that correct yeah yes and and he used to go to a farm
1:26:03
for a weekend to relax uh he obviously didn't believe in ghosts because the heritage of this Farm was if you were a
1:26:11
slave owner and you had an encourageable slave you sent your slave to this Farm
1:26:17
to be tortured and broken now if you believe in ghosts and the idea of Screams haunting your thoughts that was
1:26:26
the the house that rumel bought to relax it so obviously he doesn't care about
1:26:31
torture whatever and and when you saw the business at Obby gra you could see
1:26:37
that the the total lack of professionalism in the interrogators as soon as I saw that picture of that that
1:26:44
Lori England uh with a leash I said they're having amateurs do the
1:26:51
interrogation that's when and if and when uh what was it
1:26:57
uh uh Halton had their recruiting events at uh
1:27:05
uh at hotels they would ask people why they were going to Iraq and they
1:27:10
wouldn't say you know to spread democracy uh because it's strategic they
1:27:16
they were all coached to yell for the money and that's what it was for for for
1:27:21
Rumsfeld and for Cheney and for these people for the money and uh and
1:27:28
Cheney uh built many of the uh building blocks for an authoritarian state it is
1:27:35
hugely ironic that his daughter is passing herself off as the anti-
1:27:40
dictator Republican because her father created many of these emergency powers
1:27:46
that Trump is now going to use so if ever there was a war that was
1:27:54
was Mi mismanaged worse in both Iraq and
1:27:59
Afghanistan those two guys flubbed it and they didn't listen and the Iraqis
1:28:06
and the Lebanese and the jordanians they were willing to help us and there was a
1:28:15
it was there was a reason that the Arab Street did not rise when we invaded
1:28:21
Iraq they hoped to be the next South Korea there was no accident that it Rose
1:28:28
when Obama pulled out of Iraq in 2009 that's when they realized we didn't
1:28:33
care about them and the other thing they said to me was was
1:28:39
if cimar and hes Assad put their
1:28:45
knucklehead Sons on in in on the throne so to speak they were going to rise up
1:28:51
and they told me that they would and they did that's why the Arab Spring happened when
1:28:58
it did when we allowed these two people to create dynastic dictatorships and we
1:29:05
abandon the Iraqis to their Fates and spent entirely too much money and blood
1:29:11
in Afghanistan which the idea of modernizing Afghanistan into a modern
1:29:18
Jeffersonian democracy is so ridiculous I mean all we could ever hope to do
1:29:23
there was keep Al-Qaeda or Isis from taking root
1:29:28
and you know doing whacka the money should have been spent in
1:29:33
Iraq um and yes it didn't Saddam Hussein had no operational relationship with
1:29:40
Al-Qaeda but I did not want to invade Iraq because of al-Qaeda I wanted to
1:29:48
invade Iraq for the reasons I just said and because Saddam was weak and I wanted
1:29:53
to take him on when he was weak and had we not done so we would now be facing an

Israel’s Military Strategy – Strengths & Challenges
1:30:00
Iraq nuclear program like an Iranian nuclear program or a North Korean
1:30:05
nuclear program it's true that he had no nuclear weapons uh before we invaded But it was
1:30:13
not true that everyone knew that there were no M repins of mass destruction not only because uh we did
1:30:22
not have the evidence but he did when out of his way to make it look like he did have these weapons because he wanted
1:30:29
everyone to fear Him there's a very good book by Stephen Cole on the on U this
1:30:37
misperception and he also uh knew that the French and the Germans
1:30:45
and the Russians were gunning this the sanctions regime and actually when we invaded the
1:30:52
sanctions regime was about 20 minutes away from collapsing completely immediately after the
1:30:59
sanctions regime collapsed uh every country in the Middle East
1:31:05
would have gone to pilgrimages to kiss saddam's ring uh because a they thought
1:31:10
he had nuclear weapons because he made sure everyone thought that and also
1:31:15
because he was going to reconstitute his nuclear weapons which is again in that Co Steven Cole book so by taking him on
1:31:24
when he was weak we avoided in Iraq with nuclear weapons like we face in North
1:31:30
Korea in Iran and Pakistan and we could have had a
1:31:36
friendly Arab country there but uh and by the way neither the Saudis nor the
1:31:41
Israelis supported that effort uh showing that they do not Pew
1:31:47
to the American line strategically uh so
1:31:54
that was a tragedy 30,000 Americans are uh maimed all of them have
1:32:01
PTSD and over 4,500 men died
1:32:06
because George Bush didn't know anything about global strategy and he believed that Donald
1:32:13
rumfelt did and and Cheney all he cared about was oil there's more to the Middle
1:32:20
East than oil and u
1:32:25
the people were willing to help us but when they saw that we didn't that's when
1:32:31
all the the oxygen went to the terrorists who do hate us and have done
1:32:36
more to drive migrants in our Direction than anyone else uh the Arabs are not and the
1:32:44
Muslims are not all terrorists fact the the reason the migrants are coming years to get away from those people right so
1:32:52
to take us not no just to take us back back a little bit further 9 911 um what are
1:33:00
your what are your thoughts on 911 and I'm not I'm not gonna dive into the different conspiracies and all the I'm
1:33:06
just curious to know what thoughts are yeah either yeah yeah I do know that the
1:33:12
I remember I don't know where I was I was talking to some Englishman he said I
1:33:18
was unusual to meet an educated American that's what the English always say to Americans
1:33:24
um actually every every time I was in the Middle East they would ask me if I
1:33:29
were CIA and I always said no they were always indignant don't you want to know anything they would ask you should be
1:33:36
CIA I'm not CIA um I was talking to this guy he was an NCO from special SAS and
1:33:43
his job was to look after the bin Laden the branch of the bin Laden family that lived in New Jersey but boogie down in
1:33:52
Manhattan um um and then there was another guy who dealt with the bin Laden
1:33:58
in um in Boston and you know the bin lens were all
1:34:03
over America and they had a very intimate relationship with the Bush
1:34:08
family and uh
1:34:15
and they were protected after 9911 I do know that the reason that Ben I think my
1:34:23
I'm pretty sure that Bin Laden hated this country was not just his adopted
1:34:32
Islamic faith because he was one of the dissolute young rich Arab uh he was not
1:34:39
uh sa he was yemeni who Bo boogie down in the discotics of uh
1:34:45
Europe um you know these guys always become very religious once their parts
1:34:51
fall apart and they Viagra doesn't work for them anymore and he uh his father
1:34:57
was a financial Wizard and when the uh American dollar

Where Do Palestinians Go From Here? Future Prospects
1:35:06
basically shrunk in its International Trade weighted value to a quarter of what it
1:35:14
was um it put the Saudi and the other oil monarchies into financial
1:35:21
crisis and he and eventually it led to their doing
1:35:27
the oil oil embargo and surging oil prices now politically they conveniently
1:35:33
used the Arab Israeli War of 1973 as the reason but really they increased the
1:35:40
prices by four or fivefold to offset the
1:35:47
collapse in the trade weighted value of the dollar that that's because when the British cre these
1:35:54
monarchies they owed us a lot of money uh and they priced they pegged the
1:36:02
dollar all the oil sales to US Dollars and the British control those oil sales
1:36:09
and they Ed the proceeds they made from those oil s SES uh oil sales in dollars
1:36:15
to pay us back the debt that they owed us for World War World War
1:36:20
II and that that was why the oil prices went but anyway one of the guys who helped
1:36:26
the Saudis uh get their financial house in order was Bin Laden's
1:36:31
father he was a financial wizard they rewarded him by giving him all sorts of
1:36:37
contracts to build s Saudi cities and different
1:36:42
project he became indispensable but as always with the case of Saudi Royal any
1:36:50
royal families they do not like indispensable people especially people who think they're
1:36:56
indispensable so Bin Laden's father mysteriously died on a plane
1:37:01
crash and Bin Laden was convinced to the dying day that we and the Saudis had
1:37:08
organized his father's death hence his hatred for the United States and one of
1:37:14
the things that is a truism and has always been the truism in the Middle
1:37:20
East is that the everything is controlled by the CIA the weather is controlled by the CIA and
1:37:27
whenever I tried to explain to people that everything all these convoluted theories you know when we did one screw
1:37:34
up after another we're not part of a grand design but because we didn't know what we were doing and we were confused
1:37:41
they refused to believe this and I couldn't convince them and uh the but
1:37:49
the biggest they can't seem seem to kind of be disillusion by that because they
1:37:54
wanted to think someone was in control but I got I got a lot of screaming phone
1:38:01
calls during the first Trump administration because when people don't
1:38:07
realize that the whole world has relied on American protection and America's
1:38:14
driving the agenda much more than anyone realizes before every International Conference or be before any policy
1:38:21
change for example these countries would call the United States specifically the state department
1:38:28
desk that covered their region the far east region the near East desk whatever
1:38:33
and say we're thinking about changing our policy in the following way what do you think of this is this okay with you
1:38:40
and we'd you know tell them what we thought and would' work with them and they'd work with us and then things
1:38:45
would change so all of the Sovereign decisions were made in consultation with
1:38:51
us nothing was ided without consulting the Americans which is a pretty good thing to have if you're a global
1:38:58
Empire um and
1:39:03
the and of course the CIA was considered to be sort of the hammer that you know
1:39:09
without having to use the military and if you know someone was doing something wrong the American president would task
1:39:16
the CIA to deal with it and we got rid of anyone who was a problem or whatever
1:39:21
you know this was the theory but when Trump denounced the CIA in
1:39:27
Helsinki and the CIA didn't get rid of him uh I got these phone calls saying
1:39:35
how outraged these foreign friends were saying that they had lost totally
1:39:42
lost confidence in the CIA because you didn't get rid of Donald
1:39:48
Trump and I said this is the Deep State you know of course he keeps talking I
1:39:54
said well we we really thought that if we leaked enough information about what
1:39:59
he was doing that the voting public would get concerned and vote them out no

Lessons from History – What We Can Learn
1:40:07
you Americans can't be that naive that you people in the intelligence World actually think that you know democracy
1:40:14
works that way said yes we really do so you you you are this naive and you
1:40:22
let your president bash you over the head and not I said
1:40:27
well yeah I guess that's well we have if that's the way it is we have totally lost control and your confidence in your
1:40:34
intelligence community that is has been the biggest Blow To The Prestige of the
1:40:40
CIA I have seen in 50 years
1:40:45
so I mean if you ever wonder what people think of the CIA that that's an example
1:40:51
of how they evaluate it you know that we didn't you know Oliver Stone wouldn't agree with this yeah but Oliver Stone
1:40:58
gets pretty much everything wrong um I don't I don't want to conclude this too early because there's a lot more we
1:41:05
could discuss but the one question I do want to ask uh as kind of well as our
1:41:11
closing conversation is as it relates to the
1:41:17
Biden policy versus the Trump policy in the Middle East specifically uh dealing
1:41:22
with Israel in in Gaza what what do you think comes of this do
1:41:30
you think it's better because of a trump Administration worse because of a trump Administration um and do you think that
1:41:37
a Camala Harris kamla Harris I didn't think much of kamla
1:41:44
Harris do you you think she would have handled this better do you think she would have no I don't no I don't so and
1:41:51
then once again we to go back to the politics um as it relates to Trump's
1:41:56
Administration this time around last time around uh there was relative peace
1:42:04
right Biden's administra there wasn't relative peace I mean there's a lot of
1:42:09
death that goes on the Middle East and North Africa a lot of death but lesser conflicts because with America involved
1:42:16
let's put it that way no that actually a lot in comparison to the Biden Biden Harris Administration no now there I
1:42:24
mean Sudan uh the Somalia U Ethiopia the Horn of
1:42:31
Africa uh Iraq Syria Gaza right still still a lot of
1:42:37
conflict still I'm just saying in comparison the whole place is on fire there has been no peace before Biden yep
1:42:44
there's no peace after Biden it is a mess so and and the reason is that we
1:42:51
have outsourced our policy to the Saudis and to Israel and Biden
1:42:59
allowed uh Netanyahu to ignore him which badly weakened Biden's political
1:43:05
standing with in the Upper Midwest with Arab voters and it made him look weak
1:43:11
and the first state visit that Trump did in his first term was to Saudi Arabia
1:43:16
which they give him a gave him a huge yacht a golden a solid golden store and
1:43:22
deposited millions of dollar hundreds of millions of dollars into his account which he said didn't matter and wasn't
1:43:28
against the IM monuments or conflict of interest Clause because he says he's
1:43:34
exempt from those I don't know how he's you know that is but he is but other
1:43:39
words both presidents defer to the Saudis and the Israelis we do not have our own policy
1:43:46
there we take land and oil from them and we allow each regime to abuse the Arab
1:43:52
people and we have no friends there because we don't treat them like friends and we are
1:43:58
going to need them you cannot surge a civil civilizational Alliance after
1:44:05
you've bombed it and ignored it and and allowed turn them over to their
1:44:10
tormentors and so I see no difference between Biden or Trump or
1:44:20
Harris so no difference whatsoever in your opinion none I mean Trump wanted to get a Nobel
1:44:29
prize for the Abraham ACC courts which was a was a betrayal of of the
1:44:35
Palestinians and Biden wanted to give do the Sai deal which was another
1:44:41
betrayal which provoked the Gaza War I mean it
1:44:46
is and and every single country is experiencing terrible viol vience
1:44:54
there is no peace when Jake Sullivan Biden's National Security advisor was
1:44:59
remarking on how peaceful everything was I looked at people not peaceful at all

Final Thoughts & Looking Ahead
1:45:05
no what what pieace are you what pieace are you referring to which is which is which is back to my point right and I I
1:45:11
State this to say that the Ukraine Russia conflict the Gaza Israel the
1:45:17
Hamas Israel Gaza Israel conflict there there a lot of these conflicts that have popped up during his administration now
1:45:25
concluding Andor they are trying to conclude them in preparation for a trump
1:45:31
Administration the Trump Administration well yeah after but after Nyah who did
1:45:36
everything he wanted to do it was no great concession to Trump to conclude a
1:45:42
a a ceasefire but I I guess my question is do you give do you give Trump the credit
1:45:49
in that regard for I give him that credit okay ceasefire I know you don't like giving Trump credit on many things
1:45:56
but no I mean but that doesn't affect I may not like the guy but I'm not gonna
1:46:02
if a strategic event is happening it happens I mean so I have to give him
1:46:07
credit I don't allow that to affect my political or strategic judgment understood he got the ceasefire
1:46:14
that Biden didn't get so Trump deserves the credit understood our next conversation is is
1:46:24
going to be a lot more focused on China so I'm super excited about that conversation um and I I really
1:46:31
appreciate you coming on tonight this is once again this is the first time we've actually done this and there will be plenty more in the future hopefully um
1:46:38
so I I just appreciate you sharing and imparting your knowledge um on the podcast uh diving deep into what some
1:46:45
may consider to be controversial topics uh and ideas but overall I just appreciate your your strategic thinking
1:46:52
that not many people think like that not many people actually have th those perspectives and that Outlook um that
1:46:59
obviously the context you have too helps you to make those decisions and better understand the strategy overall but I just overall appreciate you sharing that
1:47:05
tonight on the podcast my my pleasure and you know if anyone who's upset about
1:47:10
hearing things they don't want to hear I I can assure you that I do not make stuff up to win an
1:47:17
argument uh and I would I would recommend that you
1:47:23
before you get mad and criticized go ask some Arabs and go ask
1:47:29
some Israelis and do some serious reading and find out you know
1:47:36
independently you know um what's going on and listen listen to informed people
1:47:43
I mean not people who know the talking points and and you know you can learn
1:47:48
something and and remember uh if you're on trial for your
1:47:54
life um which is what we are all in in
1:47:59
foreign policy national security policy uh it's about surviving into the next Century not telling us what we want to
1:48:05
hear and if you're on trial for your life on a murder charge do you want the
1:48:12
person who's defending you to tell you what you want to hear or do you want him to know what
1:48:18
he's talking about and get you off
1:48:23
uh of the charge and um both sides I
1:48:29
think would rather have my kind of brain defending their interests than someone
1:48:35
who tells them what they want to hear although you know sometimes it's a little bit kind of hard-nosed and cold
1:48:43
blooded for people I admit that not too many people openly admit to wanting to
1:48:48
invade other countries and talk about them being an imperial prot and it's a little bit easier hearing
1:48:55
that you're not going to get the death penalty right so well that's true and and tell Arabs that I like invading
1:49:01
their countries and want to be an EMP that was controversial but well you know
1:49:08
well that might be the strange part the the biggest part of this the well the what I'm really trying to accomplish with this podcast is getting the
1:49:14
different opinions and the different viewpoints and talking about the controver controversial topics um and you do that very well and uh really
1:49:22
focusing on on getting the the unique perspective that people need in order to form a better opinion of what's actually
1:49:28
going on well right if if you know more about what's going out on out there you
1:49:34
can not only be a better informed citizen but you can plan your own life and if and I'll end with one thing if
1:49:42
you can travel in the next five years do so while you still have a chance there are a lot of beautiful places to see in
1:49:48
this world um and you don't want to miss them because you thought there was
1:49:53
always time to travel because there won't be unfortunately we may have a war I pray not
1:50:00
but let's hope not but also prepare for the worst that yes all right well we'll
1:50:07
be doing a lot more traveling and John uh looking forward to the next episode me too byebye



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